Comments on: Let’s finally say it openly: Israel is a racist state which must be boycotted

By: Mace Price

Mace Price — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:19:18 +0000

…Ahhhh my good Vin-yerd Shaker…As I am certain you know: All Racist States are equal. But, some Racist States like Israel are—Once again—More equal than others…Thus, if one controls both sides of the Polemic in question both here and abroad; like Israel does, he then controls the Policy itself, along with either the continuance of its respective conditions, as well as its future outcome…It’s rather like shooting craps against the house here in Fabulous Las Vegas—Trust me—You ain’t gonna win, and neither are those poor Goddamn Palestinians.

By: Ozymandias

Ozymandias — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:56:14 +0000

The problem is the US government owes considerable reparations to many countries Israel would consider an enemy, such as Lebanon and Iraq, not to mention the Palestinian people, who the US should compensate for all the money, contraband, and political support offered to Israel, and which has been used in Israel’s effort at ethnic cleansing.
Simply cutting off support for Israel doesn’t end the game, then.

By: Antiwar Aficionado

Antiwar Aficionado — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 04:39:02 +0000

Boycott? I dunno.

I’d be happy if we merely stopped subsidizing Israel’s military, funding the settlements & occupation of Palestine, and quit funneling money to the likes of Egypt, Jordan, & the Lebanese Christians & other Arab countries in the hopes of buying their “peace” with Israel.

By: phil

phil — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:16:16 +0000

We can discuss this until we are blue in the face but the bottom line is that we should just listen to George Washington and should avoid any foreign entanglements. This is as good a place to start as any. What a waste of money and young lives for a country that doesn’t even appreciate us or have any loyalty towards us.

The Neturei Karta are heroic in their beliefs and actions as they act for the common good…..in other words Christ-like.

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:56:52 +0000

This is why Christ taught to hate the sin, not the sinner. We should hate racism, but still try has hard as we can to love the racist. And when we see somebody goosestepping down the ideological street of rationalized hatred we should always tell ourselves “there, but for the Grace of God, go I”

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:54:43 +0000

Ozymandias – yes, I have had that experience with some of my friends too (whether Jewish or not). and I also pull back from such conversations as they produce little good. So heck – just be a good friend to him and show him that the world is not as black and white as he was taught. In my experience those who hang on to ugly ideologies for emotional reasons need love and friendship more than anything else, and more than rational arguments for sure.

By: Ozymandias

Ozymandias — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:48:22 +0000

VS: No anti-Israeli text would be good enough to convince him. God himself could not convince him. He’ll either convince himself or he won’t. Young men are especially vulnerable to pro-military jingoism, and it’s doubly true of Jews because of A) the Holocaust, and B) The religious nature of the territory itself (he’s a practicing Jew). We’ve gotten into a few high-tension arguments about it but I refuse to go there anymore because I don’t like to transact intellectual business on emotional grounds, and he can’t transact business on any other grounds than those. If I’m reading something by Chomsky or Finkelstein, I just hide it from him so it doesn’t become a bone of contention.

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:45:15 +0000

for a South African look at the Israel boycott issue check out this one: http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley08052006.html

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:42:47 +0000

yep, I know about the Neturei Karta. I even tried to get one of their reps to be interviewed on my blog, but so far no answer. I guess that ever since they participated in the Holocaust Conference in Tehran they are in so much trouble that it keeps them busy full time. These guys are *hated* in Israel and, if I remember correctly, some Knesset members have even discussed revoking their Israeli citizenship.
There are plenty of decent people in Israel. One does not need to be a Neturei Karta to realize that racism, any racism, is intrinsically evil. I am not talking about the goosestepping Fascists of the Rabin/Peres crowd, oe even about the Peace Now folks, but the B’Tselem or Gush Shalom types. Alas, many of them are now leaving Israel and have been doing so for years and the trend so far is definitely for a hardening of the Israeli public opinion which is being terrified into racism but the Israeli establishment (as Ozymandias correctly points out). But fear is no excuse. Jim Crow laws were ALSO based on fear, that hardly makes them worthy of anything but contempt.

By: SteveC

SteveC — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:34:39 +0000

To Vineyardsaker………

There’s an ultra Orthodox Jewish Group called: Neturei Karta that is vehemently opposed to Zionist imperialism and ethnic cleansing.

http://www.nkusa.org/

Are you familiar with them? Is there any serious dialogue between these Ultra Orthodox and the Anti – Zionist Secular Left?

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:28:46 +0000

Ozymandias: maybe you should give him the Jonathan Cook book as a present? Its small, short, well written, cheap, and it’s a fantastic “one stop reference” on this issue.

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:26:52 +0000

well then that makes him a Jim Crow kind of racist in my book and if doing the morally right thing “punishes” him in any way I think he deserves whatever pain that might cause him. Get me right, this is nothing personal against him, but somebody or something needs to break the news to him that his ethics and world view are on the same level as the KKKs.

By: Ozymandias

Ozymandias — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:20:10 +0000

Q: “Ozymandias – would your roommate accept accept a one state solution which would be “race-blind”? You know, “one man, one vote” and equality for all before the law kind of stuff?”

A: No.

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:17:10 +0000

What does Israel produce worth boycotting anyway?
Electronics, fruits, tourism, etc. See here for more info: http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.php#companies

But that is not the point. The boycott should be a moral stance, not an economic strangulation strategy.

By: Scott

Scott — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:06:11 +0000

I think one state is the best solution, but I agree with Ozzy that pressure on the USG to butt out is the best place to start. What does Israel produce worth boycotting anyway?

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:56:24 +0000

Ozymandias – would your roommate accept accept a one state solution which would be “race-blind”? You know, “one man, one vote” and equality for all before the law kind of stuff?

By: Paul

Paul — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:42:39 +0000

AMEN.I’m for boycotting Apartheid states.

By: Ozymandias

Ozymandias — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:22:06 +0000

The Israeli state was created by a group of Stern Gang-type militants, not “chosen” by the people of the region. Young Jews are often bribed into moving there (my roommate, who is Jewish, is being offered a large sum of money to move there permanently), and are then indoctrinated by the state-media complex, the same system that changed Americans over the years from Revolutionaries into Imperials. The responsibility for the Israeli state’s actions can be placed squarely on the Establishment – the media-state-corporate complex, much the same as the West. I’m convinced peace in the region would happen minutes after the US ended its foreign aid to Israel, because Israel’s military conquests would then become economically impossible. This is what the goal should be, not a boycott.

By: vineyardsaker

vineyardsaker — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:09:03 +0000

Last time I checked Cuba was not a racist state, in fact it might be the single most racially integrated state on the planet. nor does Cuba fight endless wars with systematic violations of international law, law of war, or human rights law. Nor did I say anything about imposed embargoes by any bodies such as the UN or any government. What I am saying is that we, as people, as individuals, should refuse to in any way provide aid or support to the racist regime in Jerusalem and make that rejection of ours public. As for punishing the Israelis, they *choose* their government as much as the South African whites chose their own and my heart does not go out to them in the least. I remind you that it is their kulture which makes it possible for their RECRUITED/CONSCRIPTED soliders to commit atrocities against the Palestinians on a daily basis. The guys who shoot and kids are not some SS stromtroopers, but young conscripts. As long as the Israeli public at large supports that kind of atrocities they can forget about getting any kind of sympathy from me.
I will support B’Tselem or Gush Shalom and Israelis like Pappe or Gilad Atzmon, but the rest of them Likudniks/Kibbutzim/Haredim will have to pay the price for their own chosen racism.

By: Ozymandias

Ozymandias — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:55:26 +0000

Israel’s policies are obviously racist and bigoted, but how do you mean, “boycotted”? I’m for reducing to zero any “foreign aid” contributions from other nations, but not for a trade embargo imposed at the behest of the UN or any other government agency. Punishing the Israeli people for the actions of their militant state is no better than punishing Cubans for the existence of their inexcusable supreme leader (or punishing the Cuban people for the failure of the Bay of Pigs, and its subsequent sullying of the perfect image of Jack Kennedy).