The neo-cons and the Bush crazies are crazy, but not crazy enough to have been behind 9/11 imo, even if 9/11 hadn’t happened they would have used something else to motivate the masses of dumbed down idiots to agree to a war in Iraq.
Indeed there WERE idiosyncrasies in the government’s own orthodox tale re: 9-11, and to this day the truth is still coming out.
However, it ain’t Loose Change. My guess is that it’s Sibel Edmonds.
The fact the government released it’s version of 9-11 in the way it does most everything else–incompetently–gives me a slight amount of pause to condemn so called 9-11 truthers, who misinterpret stupidity as maliciousness.
Also, I strongly suspect that this crowd are being played as “useful idiots” by some agency like an FBI Cointelpro, though to what end I only speculate. I do speculate that they are held up as some kind of straw men while people who do deserve to be in bars get to walk around in their teflon coats, rather than orange prision suits.
They are definitely covering something up, why else would you try to appoint Kissinger to the head of the 9/11 commission report ?, although he did have to stand down, they replaced him with Bush bag man Thomas Hamilton, who himself admits the 9/11 commission report failed because the Bush admin put a time limit on it, under funded it and interfered at every step.
Also, condi Rice’s mate, Philip Zelikow, was appointed chief executive of the commission. Point being they are definitely covering up something, but it’s more likely incompetence or saudi connections to the attacks, didn’t the saudis hire James Baker’s lawyer firm to defend them against the 9/11 families when they filed a law suit against them, I’m sure i read somewhere that the Saudis lawyers even got their own room at the white house.
Not that we’ll ever really know anything about the who’s, how’s, and why’s of mass media spectacles such as 9/11 and world war, here are some rough analogies for understanding 9/11:
Dan Hopsicker (www.madcowprod.com) is to 9/11 as Jim Garrison was to JFK.
Venice, Florida is to 9/11 as New Orleans was to JFK.
Venice, Florida is to 9/11 as Mena, Arkansas was to Iran/Contra.
Rudi Dekkers is to 9/11 as Guy Bannister was to JFK.
Wolfgang Bohringer is to 9/11 as Dave Ferrie was to JFK.
Wallace J. Hilliard is to 9/11 as Clay Shaw was to JFK.
I think that if you want to understand 9/11, you have to be like Jim Garrison and follow the trail of the assassins.
I don’t buy what they’re selling, but I don’t spend much time arguing with them. I’d rather be around a 9/11 truther than a state worshipper, after all. At least they have distrust in government, although not exactly what I’d call a *healthy* distrust.
They really go over the top with this stuff. I was listening to “Hawks Cafe” on the Michael Badnarik radio show (Badnarik is good in so many ways, but he buys in…) and these guys were talking about all of the top government officials being blackmailed into going along, and that there is some massive use of “snuff films” to show them what will happen to them if they don’t. One of the guys went into a rant using numerology one day – he had the number 11 related to about 50 different variables including the fact that the two towers themselves look like an eleven. I think I could even hear Badnarik sigh while that was going on.
I don’t see how they think that a government they know fucks up everything it touches could pull this thing off.
Yes, there is cover-up, I believe, and it’s all about covering up all the fuck-ups that could have prevented the attack.
I think it was the incompetence, arrogance, and downright hubris of new political appointees in key positions throughout government. We got what we paid for in Bush.
I would accept that the government lies and tries to cover up those lies as an axiom. And I see 9/11 truthers as allies regardless of whether they’re right. They obviously hate the government and don’t trust it, so why quibble? That’s why I don’t spend all of my time attacking JFK/RFK conspiracy types. They’re wrong, but they have a lot right (hate and distrust of the government). In fact there’s a real argument to be made for encouraging conspiracy theories on the basis that it undermines trust in the State.
Ozy mon… I think there’s a LOT of circumstantial evidence pointing to the JFK / RFK assassination being an inside job!! No doubt that neither of these were lone gunman!!
Much as I like Scott Horton, and the plethora of fantastic interviews he’s done, I continue to be amazed at his attitude toward 9-11 truthers. It is a fact that the WTC1,2, and 7 were blown up. If you don’t get that, well then you don’t get it. But that is the case and the simple fact that the government not want to investigate it, implicates the government. The fact that the media doesnt want to investigate implicates the media. Who controls the government and the media? Israel. So Israel did it – open and shut case. And if you think Israel can’t get away with mass murder and shut up hundreds of people, just do a little research on the USS Liberty.
Andy, on your first point, nobody controls the media and the government. Pro-Israeli groups may have considerable influence over it, but that’s not control. Israel and the US have a symbiotic relationship, so they each have influence on the other. You’re also leaping to an absurd conclusion by saying “open and shut case”. You have no evidence that Israel controls the media or the US government and no evidence that the US government caused the 9/11 attacks.
On your last point, no one disputes that Israel attacked the Liberty, so I must have missed the connection to 9/11.
Oscar, if you understand the JFK/RFK assassinations as well as you want to understand them, I’m not going to debate you. If you want to understand the JFK case in better detail, you could read Posner’s “Case Closed”. If you’re secure in your beliefs, then there’s nothing to fear from it.
“It is a fact that the WTC1,2, and 7 were blown up. If you don’t get that, well then you don’t get it.”
This is not logic. It is simply an assertion – a laughable one at that.
“But that is the case and the simple fact that the government not want to investigate it, implicates the government.”
This is not logic. Even if your premise (assertion without evidence) were correct, which it is not, the fact that the government isn’t investigating it could mean many things besides that they did it. The fact that there is actually no evidence for a single demolition charge in any of the 3 buildings makes this leap to conclusion all the less logical. It is neither valid, nor sound.
“The fact that the media doesnt want to investigate implicates the media. Who controls the government and the media? Israel. So Israel did it – open and shut case.”
You should just admit that you’ve decided to believe this stuff. And not be so surprised that so many don’t.
(What really sucks is that if any *actual* evidence comes out about any deliberate blind eye turned, etc., no one would ever take it seriously after so much of this kind of stuff.)
Good job on your rebuttals … while I still think some of the issues raised merit more investigation, I appreciated your playful and restrained demeanor in that dialog.
Ozy, I’m not dissing your case. In my humble opinion there’s just a stronger case against lone gunmen. It does not offend me that people think differently on this. JFK has been dead for, what, 45 years? Debates over this will not rewrite history or alter its course by now!
Well it is a fact not an assertion that the towers were blown up. Was evidence found? Actually evidence of thermite was found. But the evidence for the most part was covered up by the government. They cordoned off the area, restricted acess, and got the steel out of there as fast as they possibly could just so – as you say – that no evidence would be found. But regardless, the simple fact that the buildings collapsed into their own footprint in a matter of seconds, is the real evidence. That has never happened ever, before, or after in history – except with controlled demolitions. And building 7 wasn’t even hit by a plane. It fell like a rock – perfectly, symmetrically, straight down. Have you seen the pictures of the other WTC buildings that weren’t blown up? They look like they got hit by debris. You think a rock hit WTC7 and it turned to dust? Thats the evidence. And it is ironclad, captured on videotape for all to see. All the rest is just icing on the cake.
How do you guys suppose you’re going to hear the truth about this? Do you think you’re going to hear about it from Bill O’Reilly? Do you think FEMA, who was so prepared they got there the day before the attack – do you think they’re going to produce the study for you?
How about Michael Chertoff, son of a Mossad agent, the guy who let the 200 Israeli spies go back to Israel on visa violations and then imprisoned 1000 innocent Arabs. The guy who defended, Magdy Elamir, the financier of the first WTC attack, put the kabosh on Operation Diamondback and had the Patriot Act all written up and ready to go after the attacks? Is he going to give you the report?
How about the 5 Israeli’s caught celebrating the attack of the “first” WTC before anyone even knew it was terrorism? Who’s van tested positive for explosives? Who failed the FBI’s lie detector tests. Whose company was a Mossad front, the owner of which fled immediately to Israel. Who Michael Chertoff sent back to Israel on Visa violations only to have them admit on Israeli TV they were there to record the event. They’ve already confessed – does it not count unless you hear about it in the New York Times from Bill Kristol?
Does it not make you even a little suspicious that Bush downgraded Richard Clarke at the time he was receiving an avalanche of warnings about the coming attack?
In March 2001 Italian Intelligence wiretapped an al quaeda cell in milan – warned that brothers were going to the united states to attack with a massive strike involving aircraft – reported by LA times and Washington Post
April 2001 – News report comes out that a year before 9/11 a Pakistani British man reports that he had been trained by Osama Bin Laden to fly planes into buildings
April 2001 – The Phoenix memo from the former head of Iran’s Savak specifically warned FBI HQ of pilot training and its possible link to terrorist activities against the United States. Four months prior to the terrorist attacks, the Iranian asset provided the FBI with specific information regarding the “use of airplanes,” “major U.S. cities as targets,” and “Osama bin Laden issuing the order.”
July 2001 60 min reports Egyptian intelligence informs the CIA that 20 alquadea had slipped into US and four of them had trained on Cessnas
August 2001 Report from Morrocan intelligence agent that Bin Laden’s men were planning a large scale operation in the summer or fall in the United States.
August of 2001 – Britain’s Sunday Herald, three warnings from British intelligence specifying multiple airline hijackings were provided to Bush.
August 2001 – . CIA analysts flew down to Crawford to interrupt Bush’s vacation, and in one such briefing where the needles were pointing to red inside of CIA—something’s coming, we don’t know when, we don’t know where but it’s coming—the President said to the panicked analyst, “Alright, now, you’ve covered your ass.”
Supposedly the President was so incredibly unconcerned about all of these reports that the average American didn’t even merit an increase in airport security. Yet during the G8 summit in Italy, July 2001, CNN.com reported the administration was so concerned about an attack by hijacked airplanes it had Italy place anti-aircraft batteries on standby at the airport. Condi Rice, Prez Bush and his family, Ari Fleisher, Karl Rove – all went to sleep on a boat because they were afraid of an airplane flying into their building.
Nobody supposedly thought much of these reports, yet in July John Ashcroft refused to fly on commercial airliners. CBS News Dan Rather asked on a newscast, why is the attorney general of the US doing all his travel by specially chartered jet. The Justice Dept. cited threat assessment warnings by the FBI and said that Ashcroft is advised to only travel by private jet through the duration of his term.
Bush, like Ashcroft, simply underestimated the reports of an imminent attack, that’s probably why on the eve of September 11, he slept soundly knowing on the roof of his Sarasota resort there were surface to air missles and snipers – not a typical procedure at the time.
Do you really think the President would just sit there in a kindergarten room for 15 minutes after just being told America is being attacked? Does it make any sense that he would declare on national TV that while waiting outside the classroom he had seen the first plane crash int the WTC because it had “one terrible pilot” when that video was never seen until the next day? Do you think we could have terrorists flying around the skies of America for 2 hours attacking the WTC and the Pentagon without a single fighter plane able to intercept them? That’s 911 kookery – not the 911 truth movement. Go back to your football games.
What does the USS Liberty have to do with it? A foreign nation viciously attacked the United States Navy, murdering 34 of our seamen in an attempt to draw the US into their side in a war with Egypt – just as they did with the Lavon affair, as they have now accomplished in Iraq and as they plan for Iran. A cowardly attack that was meant to leave not one American breathing except for the heroism of our boys in uniform. And the 200 some survivors who had to accept their congressional medal of honor hidden away in a Navy shipyard were ordered into a silence which they kept for over 20 years. Yes an enemy of the United States of America can attack this country at will and hundreds – the victims no less – will keep silent. That is a historical fact. Why do you think the same cannot be true 40 years later?
Well it is a fact not an assertion that the towers were blown up. Was evidence found? Actually evidence of thermite was found.
That so-called evidence? The dust from the lady’s windowsill again?
But the evidence for the most part was covered up by the government. They cordoned off the area, restricted acess, and got the steel out of there as fast as they possibly could just so – as you say – that no evidence would be found.
You’re just assuming the “so” part. No one was trying to stop them at the time. The state’s hired contractors and scientists looked at it. All this “fast as possibly could” stuff is an attempt to prejudice the argument toward cover up when everyone knows they were trying to clean the whole thing up as fast as they could for any massive number of reasons.
But regardless, the simple fact that the buildings collapsed into their own footprint in a matter of seconds, is the real evidence. That has never happened ever, before, or after in history – except with controlled demolitions.
That is not true. Lots of buildings have collapsed before. That one at the university in Holland not long ago for example. What were they supposed to do, break at the bottom and fall over to the sides? The plane damage was at the TOP of the buildings. When the tops came down, the rest couldn’t hold. Simple.
And building 7 wasn’t even hit by a plane. It fell like a rock – perfectly, symmetrically, straight down.
No, instead it was hit by a giant falling skyscraper.
Have you seen the pictures of the other WTC buildings that weren’t blown up? They look like they got hit by debris.
Right. They were hardly scratched.
You think a rock hit WTC7 and it turned to dust? Thats the evidence.
No. A falling skyscraper.
Your “evidence” blows so far.
And it is ironclad, captured on videotape for all to see. All the rest is just icing on the cake.
…You’re still going to be hungry. They’re empty calories.
How do you guys suppose you’re going to hear the truth about this? Do you think you’re going to hear about it from Bill O’Reilly?
Probably not from you.
Do you think FEMA, who was so prepared they got there the day before the attack
Please. You think you can buffalo me with old shit? The guy who said that to Dan Rather explained that he’d been up for a few days and got mixed up was all.
do you think they’re going to produce the study for you?
I know qualified engineers who aren’t suspicious at all.
How about Michael Chertoff, son of a Mossad agent, the guy who let the 200 Israeli spies go back to Israel on visa violations and then imprisoned 1000 innocent Arabs. The guy who defended, Magdy Elamir, the financier of the first WTC attack, put the kabosh on Operation Diamondback and had the Patriot Act all written up and ready to go after the attacks? Is he going to give you the report?
Does anyone around here remember me begging the state for a report on this? Or am I just dealing in the rhetorical question crazy land of a 9/11 truther blowhard?
How about the 5 Israeli’s caught celebrating the attack of the “first” WTC before anyone even knew it was terrorism? Who’s van tested positive for explosives? Who failed the FBI’s lie detector tests. Whose company was a Mossad front, the owner of which fled immediately to Israel. Who Michael Chertoff sent back to Israel on Visa violations only to have them admit on Israeli TV they were there to record the event. They’ve already confessed – does it not count unless you hear about it in the New York Times from Bill Kristol?
Right. You stupid asshole. I’m waiting for Kristol. Better, rather than jumping to completely implausible conclusions like the Mossad was running the hijackers, I tend to think they were tracking them, perhaps with the blessing of the CIA. But I don’t know. Has anyone ever heard a 9/11 truther say “I don’t know”?
Does it not make you even a little suspicious that Bush downgraded Richard Clarke at the time he was receiving an avalanche of warnings about the coming attack?
No.
In March 2001 Italian Intelligence wiretapped an al quaeda cell in milan – warned that brothers were going to the united states to attack with a massive strike involving aircraft – reported by LA times and Washington Post
April 2001 – News report comes out that a year before 9/11 a Pakistani British man reports that he had been trained by Osama Bin Laden to fly planes into buildings
April 2001 – The Phoenix memo from the former head of Iran’s Savak specifically warned FBI HQ of pilot training and its possible link to terrorist activities against the United States. Four months prior to the terrorist attacks, the Iranian asset provided the FBI with specific information regarding the “use of airplanes,” “major U.S. cities as targets,” and “Osama bin Laden issuing the order.”
July 2001 60 min reports Egyptian intelligence informs the CIA that 20 alquadea had slipped into US and four of them had trained on Cessnas
August 2001 Report from Morrocan intelligence agent that Bin Laden’s men were planning a large scale operation in the summer or fall in the United States.
August of 2001 – Britain’s Sunday Herald, three warnings from British intelligence specifying multiple airline hijackings were provided to Bush.
August 2001 – . CIA analysts flew down to Crawford to interrupt Bush’s vacation, and in one such briefing where the needles were pointing to red inside of CIA—something’s coming, we don’t know when, we don’t know where but it’s coming—the President said to the panicked analyst, “Alright, now, you’ve covered your ass.”
“something’s coming, we don’t know when, we don’t know where but it’s coming”
Yeah. Sounds like an inside job alright.
Supposedly the President was so incredibly unconcerned about all of these reports that the average American didn’t even merit an increase in airport security. Yet during the G8 summit in Italy, July 2001, CNN.com reported the administration was so concerned about an attack by hijacked airplanes it had Italy place anti-aircraft batteries on standby at the airport. Condi Rice, Prez Bush and his family, Ari Fleisher, Karl Rove – all went to sleep on a boat because they were afraid of an airplane flying into their building.
Nobody supposedly thought much of these reports, yet in July John Ashcroft refused to fly on commercial airliners. CBS News Dan Rather asked on a newscast, why is the attorney general of the US doing all his travel by specially chartered jet. The Justice Dept. cited threat assessment warnings by the FBI and said that Ashcroft is advised to only travel by private jet through the duration of his term.
Bush, like Ashcroft, simply underestimated the reports of an imminent attack, that’s probably why on the eve of September 11, he slept soundly knowing on the roof of his Sarasota resort there were surface to air missles and snipers – not a typical procedure at the time.
Yeah, so what? In case you haven’t noticed, the head of the 9/11 commission and the report itself said that there were tons of prior knowledge and that they should have been able to stop it. That’s the official story. Everyone knows that shit. It still doesn’t prove that they willfully did nothing in order to further the attacks.
Do you really think the President would just sit there in a kindergarten room for 15 minutes after just being told America is being attacked? Does it make any sense that he would declare on national TV that while waiting outside the classroom he had seen the first plane crash int the WTC because it had “one terrible pilot” when that video was never seen until the next day?
Sure. The man is a fucking stooge with shit for brains. The one thing he knows is that he’s not supposed to ad-lib important shit. So he was waiting for Fleicher to tell him what to say. No different if he was in on it or not.
Do you think we could have terrorists flying around the skies of America for 2 hours attacking the WTC and the Pentagon without a single fighter plane able to intercept them? That’s 911 kookery – not the 911 truth movement. Go back to your football games.
It wasn’t two hours, yes, you are the idiots who call yourselves the “truth movement,” and I don’t watch TV, I read all day. You ought to give it a try.
What does the USS Liberty have to do with it? A foreign nation viciously attacked the United States Navy, murdering 34 of our seamen in an attempt to draw the US into their side in a war with Egypt – just as they did with the Lavon affair, as they have now accomplished in Iraq and as they plan for Iran. A cowardly attack that was meant to leave not one American breathing except for the heroism of our boys in uniform. And the 200 some survivors who had to accept their congressional medal of honor hidden away in a Navy shipyard were ordered into a silence which they kept for over 20 years. Yes an enemy of the United States of America can attack this country at will and hundreds – the victims no less – will keep silent. That is a historical fact. Why do you think the same cannot be true 40 years later?
Uh… Doesn’t prove a fucking thing. Thanks anyway…. (sigh)… Next?
In the mid70′s a skyscraper under construction in Seven Corners VA. fell straight down with no explosives. They had been pouring concrete while not letting lower floors cure long enough. But it fell and caused the parking levels below ground to come straight up. I beleave the company was Miller Long const. On another note I saw a clip where OBL is eating with his right hand and they claim “That couldn’t be OBL he’s left handed.” Most Americans don’t know. In the Middle East it is not only good manners but for sanitary reasons you eat with your right hand and wipe with your left. So whoever it was in the clip he had good manners.
The neo-cons and the Bush crazies are crazy, but not crazy enough to have been behind 9/11 imo, even if 9/11 hadn’t happened they would have used something else to motivate the masses of dumbed down idiots to agree to a war in Iraq.
Indeed there WERE idiosyncrasies in the government’s own orthodox tale re: 9-11, and to this day the truth is still coming out.
However, it ain’t Loose Change. My guess is that it’s Sibel Edmonds.
The fact the government released it’s version of 9-11 in the way it does most everything else–incompetently–gives me a slight amount of pause to condemn so called 9-11 truthers, who misinterpret stupidity as maliciousness.
Also, I strongly suspect that this crowd are being played as “useful idiots” by some agency like an FBI Cointelpro, though to what end I only speculate. I do speculate that they are held up as some kind of straw men while people who do deserve to be in bars get to walk around in their teflon coats, rather than orange prision suits.
They are definitely covering something up, why else would you try to appoint Kissinger to the head of the 9/11 commission report ?, although he did have to stand down, they replaced him with Bush bag man Thomas Hamilton, who himself admits the 9/11 commission report failed because the Bush admin put a time limit on it, under funded it and interfered at every step.
Thomas Hamilton,…………
Tom Keane & Lee Hamilton (long time R & D establishment figures, respectively)
Thomas Hamilton, thats the one.
Also, condi Rice’s mate, Philip Zelikow, was appointed chief executive of the commission. Point being they are definitely covering up something, but it’s more likely incompetence or saudi connections to the attacks, didn’t the saudis hire James Baker’s lawyer firm to defend them against the 9/11 families when they filed a law suit against them, I’m sure i read somewhere that the Saudis lawyers even got their own room at the white house.
Lee Hamilton, even
, jesus, I’m having a bad day .
Not that we’ll ever really know anything about the who’s, how’s, and why’s of mass media spectacles such as 9/11 and world war, here are some rough analogies for understanding 9/11:
Dan Hopsicker (www.madcowprod.com) is to 9/11 as Jim Garrison was to JFK.
Venice, Florida is to 9/11 as New Orleans was to JFK.
Venice, Florida is to 9/11 as Mena, Arkansas was to Iran/Contra.
Rudi Dekkers is to 9/11 as Guy Bannister was to JFK.
Wolfgang Bohringer is to 9/11 as Dave Ferrie was to JFK.
Wallace J. Hilliard is to 9/11 as Clay Shaw was to JFK.
I think that if you want to understand 9/11, you have to be like Jim Garrison and follow the trail of the assassins.
I don’t buy what they’re selling, but I don’t spend much time arguing with them. I’d rather be around a 9/11 truther than a state worshipper, after all. At least they have distrust in government, although not exactly what I’d call a *healthy* distrust.
They really go over the top with this stuff. I was listening to “Hawks Cafe” on the Michael Badnarik radio show (Badnarik is good in so many ways, but he buys in…) and these guys were talking about all of the top government officials being blackmailed into going along, and that there is some massive use of “snuff films” to show them what will happen to them if they don’t. One of the guys went into a rant using numerology one day – he had the number 11 related to about 50 different variables including the fact that the two towers themselves look like an eleven. I think I could even hear Badnarik sigh while that was going on.
I don’t see how they think that a government they know fucks up everything it touches could pull this thing off.
Yes, there is cover-up, I believe, and it’s all about covering up all the fuck-ups that could have prevented the attack.
I think it was the incompetence, arrogance, and downright hubris of new political appointees in key positions throughout government. We got what we paid for in Bush.
The Bush admin have spent the last 7 years since 9/11 lying their arses off, would be a bit naive to think they haven’t lied about something re 9/11.
Yeah, but no one on earth – outside of the national government itself – has ever made the claim you dispute, or believes it.
I would accept that the government lies and tries to cover up those lies as an axiom. And I see 9/11 truthers as allies regardless of whether they’re right. They obviously hate the government and don’t trust it, so why quibble? That’s why I don’t spend all of my time attacking JFK/RFK conspiracy types. They’re wrong, but they have a lot right (hate and distrust of the government). In fact there’s a real argument to be made for encouraging conspiracy theories on the basis that it undermines trust in the State.
Ozy mon… I think there’s a LOT of circumstantial evidence pointing to the JFK / RFK assassination being an inside job!! No doubt that neither of these were lone gunman!!
Much as I like Scott Horton, and the plethora of fantastic interviews he’s done, I continue to be amazed at his attitude toward 9-11 truthers. It is a fact that the WTC1,2, and 7 were blown up. If you don’t get that, well then you don’t get it. But that is the case and the simple fact that the government not want to investigate it, implicates the government. The fact that the media doesnt want to investigate implicates the media. Who controls the government and the media? Israel. So Israel did it – open and shut case. And if you think Israel can’t get away with mass murder and shut up hundreds of people, just do a little research on the USS Liberty.
Andy, on your first point, nobody controls the media and the government. Pro-Israeli groups may have considerable influence over it, but that’s not control. Israel and the US have a symbiotic relationship, so they each have influence on the other. You’re also leaping to an absurd conclusion by saying “open and shut case”. You have no evidence that Israel controls the media or the US government and no evidence that the US government caused the 9/11 attacks.
On your last point, no one disputes that Israel attacked the Liberty, so I must have missed the connection to 9/11.
Oscar, if you understand the JFK/RFK assassinations as well as you want to understand them, I’m not going to debate you. If you want to understand the JFK case in better detail, you could read Posner’s “Case Closed”. If you’re secure in your beliefs, then there’s nothing to fear from it.
Andy,
“It is a fact that the WTC1,2, and 7 were blown up. If you don’t get that, well then you don’t get it.”
This is not logic. It is simply an assertion – a laughable one at that.
“But that is the case and the simple fact that the government not want to investigate it, implicates the government.”
This is not logic. Even if your premise (assertion without evidence) were correct, which it is not, the fact that the government isn’t investigating it could mean many things besides that they did it. The fact that there is actually no evidence for a single demolition charge in any of the 3 buildings makes this leap to conclusion all the less logical. It is neither valid, nor sound.
“The fact that the media doesnt want to investigate implicates the media. Who controls the government and the media? Israel. So Israel did it – open and shut case.”
You should just admit that you’ve decided to believe this stuff. And not be so surprised that so many don’t.
(What really sucks is that if any *actual* evidence comes out about any deliberate blind eye turned, etc., no one would ever take it seriously after so much of this kind of stuff.)
Hey Scott,
Good job on your rebuttals … while I still think some of the issues raised merit more investigation, I appreciated your playful and restrained demeanor in that dialog.
– SMiles
Ozy, I’m not dissing your case. In my humble opinion there’s just a stronger case against lone gunmen. It does not offend me that people think differently on this. JFK has been dead for, what, 45 years? Debates over this will not rewrite history or alter its course by now!
Smiles,
That was only “playful and restrained” because you know me. Hahaha.
Well it is a fact not an assertion that the towers were blown up. Was evidence found? Actually evidence of thermite was found. But the evidence for the most part was covered up by the government. They cordoned off the area, restricted acess, and got the steel out of there as fast as they possibly could just so – as you say – that no evidence would be found. But regardless, the simple fact that the buildings collapsed into their own footprint in a matter of seconds, is the real evidence. That has never happened ever, before, or after in history – except with controlled demolitions. And building 7 wasn’t even hit by a plane. It fell like a rock – perfectly, symmetrically, straight down. Have you seen the pictures of the other WTC buildings that weren’t blown up? They look like they got hit by debris. You think a rock hit WTC7 and it turned to dust? Thats the evidence. And it is ironclad, captured on videotape for all to see. All the rest is just icing on the cake.
How do you guys suppose you’re going to hear the truth about this? Do you think you’re going to hear about it from Bill O’Reilly? Do you think FEMA, who was so prepared they got there the day before the attack – do you think they’re going to produce the study for you?
How about Michael Chertoff, son of a Mossad agent, the guy who let the 200 Israeli spies go back to Israel on visa violations and then imprisoned 1000 innocent Arabs. The guy who defended, Magdy Elamir, the financier of the first WTC attack, put the kabosh on Operation Diamondback and had the Patriot Act all written up and ready to go after the attacks? Is he going to give you the report?
How about the 5 Israeli’s caught celebrating the attack of the “first” WTC before anyone even knew it was terrorism? Who’s van tested positive for explosives? Who failed the FBI’s lie detector tests. Whose company was a Mossad front, the owner of which fled immediately to Israel. Who Michael Chertoff sent back to Israel on Visa violations only to have them admit on Israeli TV they were there to record the event. They’ve already confessed – does it not count unless you hear about it in the New York Times from Bill Kristol?
Does it not make you even a little suspicious that Bush downgraded Richard Clarke at the time he was receiving an avalanche of warnings about the coming attack?
In March 2001 Italian Intelligence wiretapped an al quaeda cell in milan – warned that brothers were going to the united states to attack with a massive strike involving aircraft – reported by LA times and Washington Post
April 2001 – News report comes out that a year before 9/11 a Pakistani British man reports that he had been trained by Osama Bin Laden to fly planes into buildings
April 2001 – The Phoenix memo from the former head of Iran’s Savak specifically warned FBI HQ of pilot training and its possible link to terrorist activities against the United States. Four months prior to the terrorist attacks, the Iranian asset provided the FBI with specific information regarding the “use of airplanes,” “major U.S. cities as targets,” and “Osama bin Laden issuing the order.”
July 2001 60 min reports Egyptian intelligence informs the CIA that 20 alquadea had slipped into US and four of them had trained on Cessnas
August 2001 Report from Morrocan intelligence agent that Bin Laden’s men were planning a large scale operation in the summer or fall in the United States.
August of 2001 – Britain’s Sunday Herald, three warnings from British intelligence specifying multiple airline hijackings were provided to Bush.
August 2001 – . CIA analysts flew down to Crawford to interrupt Bush’s vacation, and in one such briefing where the needles were pointing to red inside of CIA—something’s coming, we don’t know when, we don’t know where but it’s coming—the President said to the panicked analyst, “Alright, now, you’ve covered your ass.”
Supposedly the President was so incredibly unconcerned about all of these reports that the average American didn’t even merit an increase in airport security. Yet during the G8 summit in Italy, July 2001, CNN.com reported the administration was so concerned about an attack by hijacked airplanes it had Italy place anti-aircraft batteries on standby at the airport. Condi Rice, Prez Bush and his family, Ari Fleisher, Karl Rove – all went to sleep on a boat because they were afraid of an airplane flying into their building.
Nobody supposedly thought much of these reports, yet in July John Ashcroft refused to fly on commercial airliners. CBS News Dan Rather asked on a newscast, why is the attorney general of the US doing all his travel by specially chartered jet. The Justice Dept. cited threat assessment warnings by the FBI and said that Ashcroft is advised to only travel by private jet through the duration of his term.
Bush, like Ashcroft, simply underestimated the reports of an imminent attack, that’s probably why on the eve of September 11, he slept soundly knowing on the roof of his Sarasota resort there were surface to air missles and snipers – not a typical procedure at the time.
Do you really think the President would just sit there in a kindergarten room for 15 minutes after just being told America is being attacked? Does it make any sense that he would declare on national TV that while waiting outside the classroom he had seen the first plane crash int the WTC because it had “one terrible pilot” when that video was never seen until the next day? Do you think we could have terrorists flying around the skies of America for 2 hours attacking the WTC and the Pentagon without a single fighter plane able to intercept them? That’s 911 kookery – not the 911 truth movement. Go back to your football games.
What does the USS Liberty have to do with it? A foreign nation viciously attacked the United States Navy, murdering 34 of our seamen in an attempt to draw the US into their side in a war with Egypt – just as they did with the Lavon affair, as they have now accomplished in Iraq and as they plan for Iran. A cowardly attack that was meant to leave not one American breathing except for the heroism of our boys in uniform. And the 200 some survivors who had to accept their congressional medal of honor hidden away in a Navy shipyard were ordered into a silence which they kept for over 20 years. Yes an enemy of the United States of America can attack this country at will and hundreds – the victims no less – will keep silent. That is a historical fact. Why do you think the same cannot be true 40 years later?
Well it is a fact not an assertion that the towers were blown up. Was evidence found? Actually evidence of thermite was found.
That so-called evidence? The dust from the lady’s windowsill again?
But the evidence for the most part was covered up by the government. They cordoned off the area, restricted acess, and got the steel out of there as fast as they possibly could just so – as you say – that no evidence would be found.
You’re just assuming the “so” part. No one was trying to stop them at the time. The state’s hired contractors and scientists looked at it. All this “fast as possibly could” stuff is an attempt to prejudice the argument toward cover up when everyone knows they were trying to clean the whole thing up as fast as they could for any massive number of reasons.
But regardless, the simple fact that the buildings collapsed into their own footprint in a matter of seconds, is the real evidence. That has never happened ever, before, or after in history – except with controlled demolitions.
That is not true. Lots of buildings have collapsed before. That one at the university in Holland not long ago for example. What were they supposed to do, break at the bottom and fall over to the sides? The plane damage was at the TOP of the buildings. When the tops came down, the rest couldn’t hold. Simple.
And building 7 wasn’t even hit by a plane. It fell like a rock – perfectly, symmetrically, straight down.
No, instead it was hit by a giant falling skyscraper.
Have you seen the pictures of the other WTC buildings that weren’t blown up? They look like they got hit by debris.
Right. They were hardly scratched.
You think a rock hit WTC7 and it turned to dust? Thats the evidence.
No. A falling skyscraper.
Your “evidence” blows so far.
And it is ironclad, captured on videotape for all to see. All the rest is just icing on the cake.
…You’re still going to be hungry. They’re empty calories.
How do you guys suppose you’re going to hear the truth about this? Do you think you’re going to hear about it from Bill O’Reilly?
Probably not from you.
Do you think FEMA, who was so prepared they got there the day before the attack
Please. You think you can buffalo me with old shit? The guy who said that to Dan Rather explained that he’d been up for a few days and got mixed up was all.
do you think they’re going to produce the study for you?
I know qualified engineers who aren’t suspicious at all.
How about Michael Chertoff, son of a Mossad agent, the guy who let the 200 Israeli spies go back to Israel on visa violations and then imprisoned 1000 innocent Arabs. The guy who defended, Magdy Elamir, the financier of the first WTC attack, put the kabosh on Operation Diamondback and had the Patriot Act all written up and ready to go after the attacks? Is he going to give you the report?
Does anyone around here remember me begging the state for a report on this? Or am I just dealing in the rhetorical question crazy land of a 9/11 truther blowhard?
How about the 5 Israeli’s caught celebrating the attack of the “first” WTC before anyone even knew it was terrorism? Who’s van tested positive for explosives? Who failed the FBI’s lie detector tests. Whose company was a Mossad front, the owner of which fled immediately to Israel. Who Michael Chertoff sent back to Israel on Visa violations only to have them admit on Israeli TV they were there to record the event. They’ve already confessed – does it not count unless you hear about it in the New York Times from Bill Kristol?
Right. You stupid asshole. I’m waiting for Kristol. Better, rather than jumping to completely implausible conclusions like the Mossad was running the hijackers, I tend to think they were tracking them, perhaps with the blessing of the CIA. But I don’t know. Has anyone ever heard a 9/11 truther say “I don’t know”?
Does it not make you even a little suspicious that Bush downgraded Richard Clarke at the time he was receiving an avalanche of warnings about the coming attack?
No.
In March 2001 Italian Intelligence wiretapped an al quaeda cell in milan – warned that brothers were going to the united states to attack with a massive strike involving aircraft – reported by LA times and Washington Post
April 2001 – News report comes out that a year before 9/11 a Pakistani British man reports that he had been trained by Osama Bin Laden to fly planes into buildings
April 2001 – The Phoenix memo from the former head of Iran’s Savak specifically warned FBI HQ of pilot training and its possible link to terrorist activities against the United States. Four months prior to the terrorist attacks, the Iranian asset provided the FBI with specific information regarding the “use of airplanes,” “major U.S. cities as targets,” and “Osama bin Laden issuing the order.”
July 2001 60 min reports Egyptian intelligence informs the CIA that 20 alquadea had slipped into US and four of them had trained on Cessnas
August 2001 Report from Morrocan intelligence agent that Bin Laden’s men were planning a large scale operation in the summer or fall in the United States.
August of 2001 – Britain’s Sunday Herald, three warnings from British intelligence specifying multiple airline hijackings were provided to Bush.
August 2001 – . CIA analysts flew down to Crawford to interrupt Bush’s vacation, and in one such briefing where the needles were pointing to red inside of CIA—something’s coming, we don’t know when, we don’t know where but it’s coming—the President said to the panicked analyst, “Alright, now, you’ve covered your ass.”
“something’s coming, we don’t know when, we don’t know where but it’s coming”
Yeah. Sounds like an inside job alright.
Supposedly the President was so incredibly unconcerned about all of these reports that the average American didn’t even merit an increase in airport security. Yet during the G8 summit in Italy, July 2001, CNN.com reported the administration was so concerned about an attack by hijacked airplanes it had Italy place anti-aircraft batteries on standby at the airport. Condi Rice, Prez Bush and his family, Ari Fleisher, Karl Rove – all went to sleep on a boat because they were afraid of an airplane flying into their building.
Nobody supposedly thought much of these reports, yet in July John Ashcroft refused to fly on commercial airliners. CBS News Dan Rather asked on a newscast, why is the attorney general of the US doing all his travel by specially chartered jet. The Justice Dept. cited threat assessment warnings by the FBI and said that Ashcroft is advised to only travel by private jet through the duration of his term.
Bush, like Ashcroft, simply underestimated the reports of an imminent attack, that’s probably why on the eve of September 11, he slept soundly knowing on the roof of his Sarasota resort there were surface to air missles and snipers – not a typical procedure at the time.
Yeah, so what? In case you haven’t noticed, the head of the 9/11 commission and the report itself said that there were tons of prior knowledge and that they should have been able to stop it. That’s the official story. Everyone knows that shit. It still doesn’t prove that they willfully did nothing in order to further the attacks.
Do you really think the President would just sit there in a kindergarten room for 15 minutes after just being told America is being attacked? Does it make any sense that he would declare on national TV that while waiting outside the classroom he had seen the first plane crash int the WTC because it had “one terrible pilot” when that video was never seen until the next day?
Sure. The man is a fucking stooge with shit for brains. The one thing he knows is that he’s not supposed to ad-lib important shit. So he was waiting for Fleicher to tell him what to say. No different if he was in on it or not.
Do you think we could have terrorists flying around the skies of America for 2 hours attacking the WTC and the Pentagon without a single fighter plane able to intercept them? That’s 911 kookery – not the 911 truth movement. Go back to your football games.
It wasn’t two hours, yes, you are the idiots who call yourselves the “truth movement,” and I don’t watch TV, I read all day. You ought to give it a try.
What does the USS Liberty have to do with it? A foreign nation viciously attacked the United States Navy, murdering 34 of our seamen in an attempt to draw the US into their side in a war with Egypt – just as they did with the Lavon affair, as they have now accomplished in Iraq and as they plan for Iran. A cowardly attack that was meant to leave not one American breathing except for the heroism of our boys in uniform. And the 200 some survivors who had to accept their congressional medal of honor hidden away in a Navy shipyard were ordered into a silence which they kept for over 20 years. Yes an enemy of the United States of America can attack this country at will and hundreds – the victims no less – will keep silent. That is a historical fact. Why do you think the same cannot be true 40 years later?
Uh… Doesn’t prove a fucking thing. Thanks anyway…. (sigh)… Next?
In the mid70′s a skyscraper under construction in Seven Corners VA. fell straight down with no explosives. They had been pouring concrete while not letting lower floors cure long enough. But it fell and caused the parking levels below ground to come straight up. I beleave the company was Miller Long const. On another note I saw a clip where OBL is eating with his right hand and they claim “That couldn’t be OBL he’s left handed.” Most Americans don’t know. In the Middle East it is not only good manners but for sanitary reasons you eat with your right hand and wipe with your left. So whoever it was in the clip he had good manners.