I still tend to think we’d be better off today if we’d instituted tougher CAFE standards or a higher gas tax. We are hurting because of he excessive proliferation of gas guzzling SUVs and the lack of public transportation in metro areas.
No you are suffering because of a lack of refineing capacity.
Regardless even if it was consumption levels that were the sole driver of price then higher taxes have been shown to do nothing to reduce demand. Private vehicle use also only accounts for a small percentage of world and US oil use. Airlines and industrial processes are much higher users.
Regardless even if it was consumption levels that were the sole driver of price then higher taxes have been shown to do nothing to reduce demand…………….
Quick Q) Since the consumer is concerned w/ price at the pump and not the break down (gas v. tax) wouldn’t in them logically follow that higher prices (period) do nothing to reduce demand….
It would appear logically that there is a point of diminishing return here vis-a-vis discretionary travel (cacations, etc) v. non – discretionary (ie travel to and from work)…
I think the gas tax is specifically set aside for transportation projects.
stevec,
I guess it depends on what level the gas tax had been set at. But you may be right, that it would not have been set high enough to prevent the production of an excess of off-road vehicles.
Saudi oil costs less than $2 per barrel to extract and this stuff is around $50. Does that mean that the near future price of gas will be 25 times as much as now? You have no problem with $100 per gallon??
It seems to me this is just as bad as the worst peak-oil consequences.
Also, what happens when tar sands and other non-conventional oil sources are depleted? We’re not preparing for that, either…
All roads should lead to the inevitability that we are going to run out some day -and the more prepared we are the less catastrophic the transition will be.
I think the gas tax is specifically set aside for transportation projects.”
You really trust these fucking sons of bitches??? The same politicians who vote to rain down death every fucking day?? Regardless of what they are supposed to do with our tax dollars they always manage to come up with creative ways to do what they please with the money. But maybe Miguel, jus maybe if we’re really lucky our rulers will use the money they steal from us to build bridges to nowhere instead of using it to kill more brown people.
I do believe that the current crisis is being artificially generated but there is one distinction that is important to make which is: We’re not running out of oil, we’re running out of “cheap” oil, the kind of oil that bubbles up through people’s basements in Iraq. There is a massive supply in the tar sands of Canada but it takes alot of energy to convert it to deliverable fuel. The oil shale in Colorado is a near wash. Try and forgot about cost in terms of dollars because they aren’t real. Think in terms of net energy gain.
The argument from almost all “peak oil” advocates as far as I know, is not that we are running out of oil, but, cheap extractable oil. Also, we have not really started to refine it stuff soon enough, or maybe we couldn’t. There’s lots of oil in the world, the question is, how fast can it get to market and at what price? There is tons and tons of oil in Alberta, Canada, but it’s not like Saudi Crude. It takes longer and is more expensive to extract. I am pretty sure this could be the same for Colorado, it could be another big oil place.
If we someday get to where it is actually running out, it won’t happen all at once. As the the oil supply dwindles, the price will rise, and energy consumers will turn to alternative energy sources. They won’t need the government to tell them to do this. There is also a drive to bring harder to get oil to market, as it becomes profitable to do so. If some hard to get oil costs $100 a barrel to extract, it won’t be extracted if oil is selling for $95 a barrel.
I tend to think that new technologies will make oil obsolete as an energy source long before it is used up. Was all the whale oil used up?
I think the country and the world is going to hit “peak government” before it hits peak oil. But seriously there might be something to peak oil.
It’s probably not the hysteria that is being propagated in a possibly cynical manner so as to fleece the consumer, but as others say, you can define “oil reserves” rather loosely. Is an oil reserve something that’s 50 feet below the ground and gold colored, practically ready to pump directly into your truck? Or is it tarry sludge that you have to blast away a mountain top to access?
Needless to say, the abiotic oil theory is probably true. Carbonaceous chondrate asteroids are filled with complex organics (i.e., oil). Titan is covered with it too.
Here’s the kicker, though. Solar power is about to go into hyperdrive in a couple of short years. It is efficiency per cost is undergoing a Moore’s Law ala computing power. This means that the average man will soon be his own energy producer in large quantities, i.e., kilowatts.
Power generation will become like the internet–decentralized and yet personalized and a huge thorn in the side of the State. It will, for example, be far far easier to live “off grid.” It will be easier to purify water without water utilities, distilling it from the rivers of moisture in the air. No more water utilities either.
The old state run dinosaur utilities days are numbered.
“If we someday get to where it is actually running out, it won’t happen all at once. As the the oil supply dwindles, the price will rise, and energy consumers will turn to alternative energy sources. ”
I don’t necessarily agree with this rosy scenario. I think it will act like a ‘bubble’; once the markets all of a sudden realize that the world is at a peak, there will be a market panic and the price will rise dramatically.
I’m not saying we are at anywhere near Peak Oil. That day is probably far off. Still, I believe energy policy may one area where an activist government may need to give guidance to the market.
I still tend to think we’d be better off today if we’d instituted tougher CAFE standards or a higher gas tax. We are hurting because of he excessive proliferation of gas guzzling SUVs and the lack of public transportation in metro areas.
No you are suffering because of a lack of refineing capacity.
Regardless even if it was consumption levels that were the sole driver of price then higher taxes have been shown to do nothing to reduce demand. Private vehicle use also only accounts for a small percentage of world and US oil use. Airlines and industrial processes are much higher users.
“…a higher gas tax.”
Yeah, great idea. Our rulers need the money to kill even more brown people.
Regardless even if it was consumption levels that were the sole driver of price then higher taxes have been shown to do nothing to reduce demand…………….
Quick Q) Since the consumer is concerned w/ price at the pump and not the break down (gas v. tax) wouldn’t in them logically follow that higher prices (period) do nothing to reduce demand….
It would appear logically that there is a point of diminishing return here vis-a-vis discretionary travel (cacations, etc) v. non – discretionary (ie travel to and from work)…
Bob Bogus,
I think the gas tax is specifically set aside for transportation projects.
stevec,
I guess it depends on what level the gas tax had been set at. But you may be right, that it would not have been set high enough to prevent the production of an excess of off-road vehicles.
XGX,
Do you know what the percentages are? I would like to know. I suspect they can’t be all that small a percentage.
Saudi oil costs less than $2 per barrel to extract and this stuff is around $50. Does that mean that the near future price of gas will be 25 times as much as now? You have no problem with $100 per gallon??
It seems to me this is just as bad as the worst peak-oil consequences.
Also, what happens when tar sands and other non-conventional oil sources are depleted? We’re not preparing for that, either…
All roads should lead to the inevitability that we are going to run out some day -and the more prepared we are the less catastrophic the transition will be.
“Bob Bogus,
I think the gas tax is specifically set aside for transportation projects.”
You really trust these fucking sons of bitches??? The same politicians who vote to rain down death every fucking day?? Regardless of what they are supposed to do with our tax dollars they always manage to come up with creative ways to do what they please with the money. But maybe Miguel, jus maybe if we’re really lucky our rulers will use the money they steal from us to build bridges to nowhere instead of using it to kill more brown people.
I do believe that the current crisis is being artificially generated but there is one distinction that is important to make which is: We’re not running out of oil, we’re running out of “cheap” oil, the kind of oil that bubbles up through people’s basements in Iraq. There is a massive supply in the tar sands of Canada but it takes alot of energy to convert it to deliverable fuel. The oil shale in Colorado is a near wash. Try and forgot about cost in terms of dollars because they aren’t real. Think in terms of net energy gain.
The argument from almost all “peak oil” advocates as far as I know, is not that we are running out of oil, but, cheap extractable oil. Also, we have not really started to refine it stuff soon enough, or maybe we couldn’t. There’s lots of oil in the world, the question is, how fast can it get to market and at what price? There is tons and tons of oil in Alberta, Canada, but it’s not like Saudi Crude. It takes longer and is more expensive to extract. I am pretty sure this could be the same for Colorado, it could be another big oil place.
If we someday get to where it is actually running out, it won’t happen all at once. As the the oil supply dwindles, the price will rise, and energy consumers will turn to alternative energy sources. They won’t need the government to tell them to do this. There is also a drive to bring harder to get oil to market, as it becomes profitable to do so. If some hard to get oil costs $100 a barrel to extract, it won’t be extracted if oil is selling for $95 a barrel.
I tend to think that new technologies will make oil obsolete as an energy source long before it is used up. Was all the whale oil used up?
I think the country and the world is going to hit “peak government” before it hits peak oil. But seriously there might be something to peak oil.
It’s probably not the hysteria that is being propagated in a possibly cynical manner so as to fleece the consumer, but as others say, you can define “oil reserves” rather loosely. Is an oil reserve something that’s 50 feet below the ground and gold colored, practically ready to pump directly into your truck? Or is it tarry sludge that you have to blast away a mountain top to access?
Needless to say, the abiotic oil theory is probably true. Carbonaceous chondrate asteroids are filled with complex organics (i.e., oil). Titan is covered with it too.
Here’s the kicker, though. Solar power is about to go into hyperdrive in a couple of short years. It is efficiency per cost is undergoing a Moore’s Law ala computing power. This means that the average man will soon be his own energy producer in large quantities, i.e., kilowatts.
Power generation will become like the internet–decentralized and yet personalized and a huge thorn in the side of the State. It will, for example, be far far easier to live “off grid.” It will be easier to purify water without water utilities, distilling it from the rivers of moisture in the air. No more water utilities either.
The old state run dinosaur utilities days are numbered.
John Delano,
“If we someday get to where it is actually running out, it won’t happen all at once. As the the oil supply dwindles, the price will rise, and energy consumers will turn to alternative energy sources. ”
I don’t necessarily agree with this rosy scenario. I think it will act like a ‘bubble’; once the markets all of a sudden realize that the world is at a peak, there will be a market panic and the price will rise dramatically.
I’m not saying we are at anywhere near Peak Oil. That day is probably far off. Still, I believe energy policy may one area where an activist government may need to give guidance to the market.