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The BBC are going to solve the “final mystery of 9/11″ in a documentary which will air tomorrow, will this put an end all the conspiracy theories about 9/11 ? : )
Here’s the trailer-
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© 2008 Stress. 
No, it won’t. And the YouTube is broken.
Yeh, that was more of a rhetorical question. :-), The clip works for me.
“This video is not available in your country.”
Oops i forgot about that.
try this one
Why do they always bring those idiots from Loose Change out of the woodwork, man I hate those guys. There are some legitimate questions about 911 and I don’t believe the official story at all, but those Loose Change guys are disinfo. And, to think BBC will give you the the “true” story is laughable. The purpose of disinfo is not to make you believe something else, but to confuse the the path to believing something fully.
Dan Hopsicker has actually done some investigating:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6618076520601759159&q=daniel+hopsicker+symposium&ei=s9hqSIPcGYyYrAKs1oXaDA&hl=en
Scott, I just don’t think the new findings will make a difference. We like to think that public debate “is”, or “should be”, or even “can be”, about reason and rational arguments. They play a role but at the heart we are talking about duelling belief systems here.And it cuts both ways…
I certainly don’t think the Bush administration or any “shadowy forces” (other than Al Qaeda, which is shadowy enough) conspired to pull off the 9-11 attack. I do think various agencies and interests were asleep at the switch and some dived in after the event to either cover themselves (FBI? CIA?), pre-empt blowback of the domestic political variety (Israeli Lobby?), or advance their own pre-existing agendas (neocons? Military-Industrial-Congressional-Complex? the domestic surveillance lobby?).
Still I found the BBC clip very interesting. In a back handed sort of way it actually gives the 9-11 “truthers” some credit. There was a lot that was unexplained about the Tower 7 collapse that was still unknown and undetermined for about seven years. Were the “non-conspiracy theorists” as rational as they like to paint themselves they should have been flagging this, rather than leaving the territory wide open for “the kooks”. I don’t recall a lot of mainstream disquiet about the unjoined dots here. The “kooks” were on to a weakness in the mainstream explanantions even if their pet counter-explanation, was, well, kooky.
This suggests that ‘kooks’ may actually play an important role in a world where the intellectual debating process is less rational than the textbook says.
Maybe kooks are like ‘opportunistic viruses’ that sniff out and exploit any sore spot in the paradigms generated by the body politic. When dealing with biological infections, antiseptics and antibiotics can wipe them out but unless the underlying wound is repaired they will often come back, often stronger than before. Indeed for medical staff their is a real risk that they will run out of viable antibiotics before they defeat returning immune resistant bacteria.
If my hypothesis that “kooks are opportunistic viruses” is correct then we need to be looking to see where they are at rather than taking an “ignore them they’ll go away” attitude.
This is the real risk from the 9-11 kooks. Unless mainstream America deals with the underlying reasons for 9-11, which I believe was simply a case of foreign policy blowback, kook reinfections will reocurr, probably in more virulent forms. It may get to the point that these belief systems will ultimately threaten the health of the US body politic, which from my observation point on the other side of the world, it just doesn’t look too healthy to me.
Hi Tim,
I think you are completely right. I mean any conspiracy nut could have told Yoda that the Prime Minister’s office was running all sides in the Clone Wars and that the Jedi were being deliberately overextended. One would have had to assume some things and jump to some conclusions, but would have been right.
If only he’d mixed with the rabble more…
Anyone who believes in any principles will begin to see through all the contradictions in the way current events are explained since they have something consistent to compare it to. The problem is that there are a lot of kooks who have some kind of principles, realize they live in a world of bullshit, but then begin to embrace and accept a whole different deception instead.
The extra bonus problem is that once someone becomes an evangelist for “waking people up” they (me too) get intolerant of those who don’t get it. This is particularly bothersome when those on the mission have no idea what they’re talking about - like the kooks in the case of building 7.
This is a bit off topic, but I can’t stop thinking about. Does anyone think that the Taliban would have actually given up bin Laden if Bush had actually made the effort to provide evidence? I don’t know a lot about the whole situation there, but I just finished reading Ghost Wars the whole prospect doesn’t seem plausible at all to me. All the times the U.S. or Pakistan tried to get bin Laden the Taliban told either he’s a guest and a good guy or “maybe if you have an indictment or evidence we’ll possibly think about maybe considering giving him up” (i.e. “fuck you, we aren’t giving him up”). Mullah Omar and the rest would’ve had to be blind, deaf and dumb not to know bin Laden was terrorist who wanted to kill Americans, even innocent children. Even as bad as 911 was, I don’t think that would’ve been enough to turn Omar against bin Laden. How many thousands of Afghans died in the civil war? The same war the U.S. helped start, intensify and then abandon once their goals were achieved. I’m not sure how bin Laden could’ve been caught, the war is clearly a disaster.
Troy,
What did we have lose by asking the Taliban to hand him over? If we had been serious about actually capturing OBL, that’s what we would have done. Maybe they would have said fuck off in the end, or maybe they really didn’t have him to hand over, but we didn’t pursue it so we’ll never know. Instead we we’re really just interested in blowing up empty caves.
They tried to warn us.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0907-08.htm
Beyond that, how’s that book? I always wanted to read that.
It sounds like only Muttawakil wanted to warn us and the rest went along with, ignored or were willfully ignorant of it. I liked it, the narrative was consistent from the pieces I’ve heard from elsewhere. Coll also discussed how there was an overload of non-specific threats before 911 and throughout the 90’s. It sounded like that was about all the CIA could actually get: vague threats.
Tim,Yes, they were all asleep at the switch, that’s it. Thank god some of us are awake. If you believe this, you’re dumber then the kooks. Maybe you have to believe this so the whole thing looks rational to you. Maybe you can’t see people either allowing this to happen or doing this on purpose. Maybe Bush didn’t know about it because he’s so dumb and he doesn’t run anything anyway, but to think there weren’t people who knew is dumb.Just like this economic crash that is coming, but of course, people like you will say the same thing. I guess they were all asleep at the switch. Man, you think they would put an alarm by these swtches by now.
Oh, and Dan Hopsicker is a liar
Their is a interesting link between the ISI (pakistani intelligence) and the hijackers, like the reports that the head of the ISI, mahmoud Ahmed, wired 100k to lead hijacker Atta in the months prior to the attacks, via Saeed Sheikh (the guy who allegedly killed Daniel Pearl), coincidentally Mahmoud Ahmed was in Washington on 9/11 meeting with US officials Porter Goss and Bob Graham, and had also met with Marc Grossman, when Condi Rice was asked in a new conference about the wire transfer she just passes it off and said she knew nothing about it, it’s interesting that the transcript from the news conference has “ISI chief” censored out -
This is from whitehouse.gov, could just be a coincidence i suppose, or maybe they want to hide it for some reason ?-
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Here’s a picture of young assassin Porter Goss with members of the CIA hit squad Operation 40: Barry Seal is seated third from left. Sitting right next to him (second from left) is Porter Goss. Beside Goss is notorious “freedom fighter” Felix Rodriguez (front left), a Cuban vice cop under the corrupt Mob-run Batista regime in Cuba who later became an Iran Contra operative and a confidant of the first George Bush. On the other side of the table is the the only spook celebrant displaying any regard for tradecraft… Covering his face with his sport coat is Frank Sturgis, famous for being one of the Watergate burglars. Beside Sturgis (front right) is another famous spook, at least among Kennedy assassination researchers, William Seymour, the New Orleans representative of the Double-Chek Corporation, a CIA front used to recruit pilots (like Seal). Seymour is regarded by many researchers as the man who on several notable occasions is said to have impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald, when that lone nut gunman was out of the country. At the time it was taken the CIA’s covert action chief in Mexico City was David Atlee Phillips, AKA Maurice Bishop, who reportedly met with Oswald in Dallas before the assassination. http://www.madcowprod.com/05072006.html Regarding the check that Ahmed wired to hijacker Atta. After they showed evidence of the check at the 9/11 Commission hearings, Hopsicker traced it down to the “Quickie Mart” on Nokomis Avenue in Venice, Florida owned and operated by future Titan Corp. contractor Makram Chams. Chams’ Quickie Mart was sort of a business hangout for the Venice hijackers, like Satriales was for the Sopranos. Apparently, Chams’ sued Hopsicker in the Florida courts and got all of Hopsicker’s evidence wiped from the internet. Here’s a link to some I found that still survives: http://unansweredquestions.org/index.php/2006/05/18/uq-wire-coke-bust-connection-to-911-attack/
Damn that didn’t work! I tried using the HTML button and editing. It looked good in the window after I hit update.
Is this the one ?
Table shot-
Yes, the bottom photo has Goss (second from left) with Operation 40’s Felix Rodriguez, Barry Seal, Frank Sturgis, et. al.
Thank you!
Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has said he will not allow the country’s territory to be used for an attack against Iran.
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=62630§ionid=351020201
It’s easy to write off 911 Truthers as kooks but remember why they got kooky in the first place. The human mind tries to make sense out of chaos. “Blowback” was not a common term seven years ago. The U.S. government is not the most reliable source of information on intelligence. The most accesable forms of journalism do not place a premium on investigation.
You are seeing a normal reaction to abnormal, unjust foreign policy.
I’m watching the documentary now, it’s is a pretty good de-bunk, … why can’t they apply the same scrutiny to the government though ? or perhaps the claims about Iran.