On facebook, Scott posted this link

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/03/10/civilians-among-17-killed-in-latest-us-drone-strikes/

About yet another drone strike in Pakistan killing civilians in Pakistan.

I posted a comment thumb nailing my current opinion about politics. Someone posted back "Urrr?"

I will elaborate here.

Some kid in a control room in Nevada X-Boxed those people to death. Why? Well, the same reason Howard Zinn pressed the button to drop iron bombs on Germany, or other guys dropped napalm on Korea and Viet Nam.

They were told -

"We have to kill the enemy. We don’t want to kill civilians but this is an unavoidable consequence. Remember that the enemy started it. If they didn’t want us killing their mothers, sisters and girl friends, they shouldn’t have started up with us. This is a harsh, evil choice to have to make, but remember, the choice is our bombs on their civilians or their bombs on our civilians. You have to kill [German, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Latino, Iraqi, Afghan Pakistan and Somalian] Civilians so Americans stay safe."

Howard Zinn described, in his anti-war Radio interview, how he figured out that this was bullshit. After the war.

http://antiwar.com/radio/2008/04/07/howard-zinn/

Lots of veterans figure this out. Too late. Some spend the rest of their lives fleeing from this realization.

It’s one way veterans are used up, and then thrown away.

Zinn found a way to fight back. Some veterans do.

http://original.antiwar.com/jamail/2008/06/04/winter-soldiers-hit-the-streets/

-*-

The rationalization is "Them" or "Us". It’s a false dilemma that has been used since bands of cavemen smashed each other in the head with clubs. "It’s us or them".

Stefan Molyneaux takes that fallacy apart neatly here -

http://www.strike-the-root.com/62/molyneux/molyneux1.html

(This article used to be up at Lew Rockwell, too… I wonder what happened?)

If there are no real "groups" just individuals in fan-clubs then we fall back to the basic rules about the use of violence - It’s never okay to start it. It’s never okay to hurt someone unless they are specifically trying to hurt you.

That is the Non-Aggression Principle. I subscribe to it myself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

Exodus 20:13 "You Shall not Murder" (If you’re into that sort of thing.)

-*-

My best friend is moderate. Right now he is a moderate democrat.

He believes that there is a "Them" and unless we have big planes, big bombs and big violence at hand, "They" will come to get us.

He can’t really name who "They" are, or any reasonable method by which "They" will come to get us that requires a nuclear aircraft carrier to defeat - but he is uncomfortable with my assertions that the American Pentagon needs to go.

-*-

The rationalization goes deeper than that.

Who bought the drone and it’s hellfire missile? Who Bought the B-17s and Iron Bombs that rained down in WWII?

We did.

—-
Not paying taxes is against the law.
If you don’t pay taxes, you’ll be fined.
If you don’t pay the fine, you’ll be jailed.
If you try to escape from jail, you’ll be shot.

Thus I — in my role as citizen and voter — am going to shoot you — in your role as taxpayer and ripe suck — if you don’t pay your fair share of the national tab.

Therefore, every time the government spends money on anything, you have to ask yourself, "Would I kill my kindly, gray-haired mother for this?"

P.J. O’Rourke - Parliament of Whores
—-

O’Rourke’s formulation makes it pretty clear - Taxation is aggression.

My Best friend hates this. His main argument, and a telling one it is, is to shout "NO!" at the top of his lungs.

You cannot argue it is not aggression.

You might argue that it’s Justified aggression - (O’Rourke does)

The idea is that there are "public goods" - and that the free market won’t provide these public goods - so for the benefit of everyone, everyone has to be forced into paying taxes.

That idea assumes that sometimes it’s okay to aggress. It’s okay to coerce - because the benefit is large.

It’s okay to coerce the contrarians and cranky who are few - Because the benefit is large to us, who are many.

Us - the beneficiaries and them - the people in jail or in their graves because they didn’t pay taxes and resisted the authorities when push came to shove,

It’s just more "Us and Them" thinking.

My thesis is this - A little "Us and them" is a slippery slope to all of it.

Once you allow the thesis that it’s okay to murder or coerce a few folks, or an individual, you’re on the slope.

There will always be someone who argues to push the coercion just a little farther. After all, their cause is good, too, right?

It doesn’t matter if 100 people argue to add their pet cause to the "Coerce everyone to pay" bandwagon - and only one succeeds

Due to Robert Higgs Ratchet effect -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Higgs#The_Ratchet_Effect

The end result is a slow evolution away from liberty and towards tyranny.

If you allow good consequences for the many to outweigh the rights of the minority or even the individual - you’ve set up a mechanism that moves towards tyranny. Be it like a kid on a skate board wiping out on Youtube or like the crawl of a tectonic plate, it’s all heading in the same direction.

Putting down Shay’s Rebellion and the Whiskey rebellion led to the atom bombing of Hiroshima - because both are rooted in the same rationalization.

-*-

Did you see it? The reason I stopped writing is in there.

None of these ideas are mine. I just hopped like a frog from lily-pad to lily-pad of someone else’s good thinking.

If you’ve been riding along with me, Listening to Scott Horton and Anti-War Radio, and reading some of the places I mentioned above then you already know all this.

I was smashing my head on my keyboard one day, thinking, "What do I have to say about liberty being good, and coercion being bad?" when I saw a new guy storm across the landscape of libertarian writing.

Anthony Gregory.

He came out of nowhere, it seemed to me, and in about two weeks, he totally kicked my ass. His writing is better. His sources are better.A His research is better.

I threw up my hands. A better pitcher was on the mound. Time to warm the bench.

In the last couple of months I have heard Scott show signs of fatigue and frustration.

Not to put too fine a point on it, we libertarians and hard core peaceniks are a minority. A lot of people are afraid to follow the logic all the way to the bottom. the idea of being without a State to protect them is scary. They fear their neighbors and they fear big corporations (with good reason) and they fear a lot of things.

My best friend wants to believe. He wants to believe with all of his heart that the red-white-and-blue monster we are all unwilling passengers in can be turned around and turned into a force for good. I sympathize. I used to want to believe that too.

I paid attention and I was educated out of that idea through the 1990s. As the internet occured,A I read some history and discovered that it has always been a lie.

The state is a gang of thieves writ large. - Murray Rothbard

The more history I read, the closer the resemblance between Government and La Cosa Nostra. You pay the "vig" or you get your legs broken. You might wind up sleepin’ wit’ da fishes. Nothin’ personal, Indians. Just business. You’re on our dirt.

The radical idea is that coercion is such a poison, such a transgression - that it is the seed that becomes the cancer that winds up being Stalin, Hitler and Mao. It’s too radical for most folks.

Even here, my ideas are crap compared to a real thinker -

"A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." - Max Planck

I think social truths may be the same way. It may be that our job is to keep the ideas alive and keep pushing. Maybe someday, we’ll be out on the porch yelling "You kids! Quit Aggressing against MY LAWN!" and most of the kids will know what we’re talking about.

So we need to encourage each other. We need to support each other. We need to welcome new folks.

So thank you Scott. Please keep it up and don’t quit. We’re making progress. It’s just slooooowww.

Listen here.

MP3 here. (58:45)

Update: MP3 here. YouTube here.

Glenn Greenwald will be discussing the Democrats’ sellout on telecom immunity at 12:15PM Eastern.

Mel Goodman will be discussing his new book, Failure of Intelligence: The Decline and Fall of the CIA at 12:40PM Eastern.

Glenn Greenwald is a former attorney and current political and legal blogger and columnist at Salon.com. He is the author of How Would a Patriot Act?, A Tragic Legacy, and Great American Hypocrites all New York Times bestsellers.

Mel Goodman was a senior analyst in Soviet affairs at the Central Intelligence Agency, where he worked for two decades (1966-1986). He later served as a Soviet analyst at the State Department, and he currently is professor of international studies at the National War College and a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy. He is the author of three books on Soviet and Russian Affairs: Gorbachev’s Retreat: The End of Superpower Rivalry in the Third World, The Wars of Eduard Shevardnadze, and The End of the Cold War.

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Sibel Edmonds and Luke Ryland will be discussing the latest developments in Sibel's legal case at 12:15PM Eastern.

Tom Engelhardt will be discussing his new article on Tomdispatch.com, "The Greatest Story Never Told: Finally, the U.S. Mega-Bases in Iraq Make the News" at 1:15PM Eastern.

Sibel Edmonds is a former FBI translator and the founder of the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition.

Luke Ryland blogs at Let Sibel Edmonds Speak

Tom Engelhardt is the creator and editor of Tomdispatch.com. Tomdispatch.com is a project of The Nation Institute where Tom is a Fellow. He is the author of a book on American triumphalism in the Cold War, The End of Victory Culture. Each spring, Tom is a Teaching Fellow at the Graduate School of Journalism at the University of California at Berkeley.

Scott Horton will appear as a guest on the "Debbie Daily" Show on KMAJ 1440 Talk Radio in Topeka, Kansas on Tuesday, June 17th, at 9:30AM Central Time.

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Update: Jacob Hornberger will be on at 12:00 Eastern to discuss the USSC habeus decision.

Karen Kwiatkowski will be discussing radicalism and the decline of empire, the rise of the police state in the United States and the deceptions of the Pentagon and Dick Cheney at 12:15PM Eastern.

Gareth Porter will be discussing his recent article on Antiwar.com, "Fearing Esclation, Pentagon Fought Cheney Iran Plan" at 1:15PM Eastern.

LRC columnist Karen Kwiatkowski, Ph.D., a retired USAF lieutenant colonel, has written on defense issues with a libertarian perspective for MilitaryWeek.com, hosted the call-in radio show American Forum, and blogs occasionally for Huffingtonpost.com and Liberty and Power.

Dr. Gareth Porter is an investigative historian and journalist on U.S. national security policy who has been independent since a brief period of university teaching in the 1980s. Dr. Porter is the author of four books, the latest of which is Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam. He has written regularly for Inter Press Service on U.S. policy toward Iraq and Iran since 2005.

Scott Horton will be presenting a speech at the State Convention of the Libertarian Party of Texas in Forth Worth, Texas, Saturday, June 14th, at 3:00PM. Horton will also appear as a guest on the "Debbie Daily" Show on KMAJ 1440 Talk Radio in Topeka, Kansas on Tuesday, June 17th, at 9:30AM Central Time.

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Philip Giraldi will be discussing his recent article for the American Conservative, "The Spy Who Loves Us " at 12:15PM Eastern.

Greg Grandin will be discussing his recent article on TomDispatch.com, "Losing Latin America: What Will the Obama Doctrine Be Like?" at 1:15PM Eastern.

Philip Giraldi is a former DIA and CIA officer, partner at Cannistraro Associates, Francis Walsingham Fellow for the American Conservative Defense Alliance, contributing editor at the American Conservative magazine and columnist at Antiwar.com.

Greg Grandin is a professor of history at New York University. He is the author of Empire’s Workshop: Latin America, the United States, and the Rise of the New Imperialism and The Last Colonial Massacre: Latin America in the Cold War.

Scott Horton will be presenting a speech at the State Convention of the Libertarian Party of Texas in Fort Worth, Texas, Saturday, June 14th, at 3:00PM. Horton will also appear as a guest on the "Debbie Daily" Show on KMAJ 1440 Talk Radio in Topeka, Kansas on Tuesday, June 17th, at 9:30AM Central Time.

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Patrick Cockburn will be discussing a pending agreement between the United States and Iraq regarding prolonging the U.S. military presence in Iraq at 12:00PM Eastern.

Jahangir Golestan-Parast will be discussing his 2006 documentary movie, "Bam 6.6" at 1:15PM Eastern.

Patrick Cockburn has been a Middle East correspondent since 1979 for the Financial Times, and presently, for The Independent. Cockburn has written five books on Iraq including The Occupation: War and Resistance in Iraq, Two, Out of the Ashes, The Resurrection of Saddam Hussein, Saddam Hussein: An American Obssession, and Muqtada: Muqtada al-Sadr, the Shia revival and the Struggle for Iraq.

Jahangir Golestan-Parast is an independent filmmaker. An international financier and a student of film making at UCLA, Jahangir’s first documentary " Isfahan , A City Known as Half the World" was based on the city of his birth and released in 1997. Expanding that effort into a series known as "The Essence of Iran Series", "Iran, a Video Journey" was released in 2000 and captures the life of a typical modern-day Iranian. Both films have achieved critical acclaim and accolades. He is the producer and director of his latest documentary movie, "Bam 6.6."

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Michael Schwartz will be discussing his latest article on Antiwar.com, "River of Resistance."

Michael Schwartz, Professor Sociology at Stony Brook University, has written extensively on popular protest and insurgency. His analyses of America’s Iraq War have appeared regularly at Tomdispatch.com, as well as Asia Times, Mother Jones, and Contexts. His forthcoming Tomdispatch book, War Without End: The Iraq Debacle in Context explores how the militarized geopolitics of oil led the U.S. to dismantle the Iraqi state and economy while fueling a sectarian civil war.

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

David Beito will be discussing his recent article in the Kansas City Star, "Battle Over Eminent Domain Is Another Civil Rights Issue" at 12:15PM Eastern.

Philippe Sands will be discussing his new book, Torture Team: Rumsfeld’s Memo and the Betrayal of American Values at 1:15PM Eastern.

David T. Beito is Associate Professor of History at the University of Alabama. He received his Ph.D in history at the University of Wisconsin in 1986. Professor Beito is the author of Taxpayers in Revolt: Tax Resistance during the Great Depression and From Mutual Aid to the Welfare state: Fraternal Societies and Social Services, 1890-1967. An urban and social historian, he has published in the Journal of Southern History, and the Journal of Urban History, among other scholarly journals. He is currently writing a biography of Dr. T. R. M. Howard, a black civil rights pioneer, entrepreneur, and mutual-aid leader.

Philippe Sands is an international lawyer, professor of law, and Director of the Center on International Courts and Tribunals in the Faculty at University College London. He is the author of Lawless World: America and the Making and Breaking of Global Rules and is a frequent commentator on news and current affairs programs including CNN, MSNBC, and BBC World Service. He has been involved in many leading international cases, including the World Court trial of Slobodan Milosevic and the treatment of British detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Christopher Ketcham will be discussing his recent article in Radar Magazine, "The Last Roundup."

Christopher Ketcham is a freelance reporter and writer for many venues including Antiwar.com, Harper’s, GQ, the Nation, Salon, Mother Jones, Men’s Journal, Good Magazine, Radar, and National Geographic. In 2002, he was selected as a Livingston Awards finalist for his Salon.com coverage of the 9/11 attacks in New York.

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio

I don’t know, news and stuff?

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Eric Margolis will be discussing his recent article, "The Great Nuclear Menace" at 12:15PM Eastern.

Imad-ad Dean Ahmad will be discussing the costs and benefits of U.S. support for the state of Israel at 1:15PM Eastern.

Eric Margolis is a foreign correspondent for the Canadian Sun National Media. He is the author of War at the Top of the World: The Struggle for Afghanistan and Kashmir and Tibet. Award winning author, columnist, and broadcaster, Eric Margolis has covered 14 wars and is a leading authority on military affairs, the Middle East, South Asia, and Islamic movements.

Imad-ad Dean Ahmad, Ph.D is president and director of the Minaret and Freedom Institute. He is an internationally known interdisciplinary scientist, author of Signs in the Heavens: A Muslim Astronomer’s Perspective on Religion and Science. He is a senior lecturer at the University of Maryland where he teaches courses on religion and progress and on religion, science, and freedom. He also teaches a course on Islam, Science, and Development at Georgetown University for the Center on Muslim-Christian Understanding.

The Scott Horton Show airs Monday through Friday from 12PM-2PM Eastern on KAOS 92.7FM. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Don’t know.

Listen live on KAOS 92.7FM in Austin. Additional feeds and archives available at Antiwar Radio.

Or watch it at Blip.tv.

(This is all but the part where I discussed the Israel Lobby’s role in pushing the war, which wasn’t recorded.)

Anders’ YouTube version here. Pupnik’s AVI version here.